Automated transcript

## Higher Education Service Design

**Daniele:** One of the first ways to learn service design in Switzerland, obviously, is through higher education. And we have a few opportunities here, as you see on the simplified map of Switzerland. We have, one place in the French speaking part, which is just at the frontier, bilingual, but today we will say that it's more Frenchy.

And we have a lot of opportunities in the Swiss German part, but also one which is mostly. Remote. And if we get right into it, obviously, we're going to start with the minority, the French speaking ones. 

## HES-SO Valais

**Daniele:** We have in Sierre or Cedars the HSSO Valais, which offers a Bachelor in Tourism with an option in Service Design during your third year with a professional orientation.

And today we have with us our lovely Manu Franiere. 

**Emmanuel Fragnière:** Hello, everybody. Hello from the snowy today, cold winter in Sierre. Very happy to be with you all. 

**Daniele:** Thanks so much, Manu, for joining. I will introduce Manu myself because I have so many great things to say about him, obviously, but I will try to keep it short.

If we keep it very professional Emmanuelle, but we all call him Manu is a professor of Service Design and Innovation and the director of the CIS, HRSS, so in Treasury Management at the University of Applied Sciences. And there he is teaching also Service Design and Innovation, and that's Why we are so excited to have him with us today.

## BHF

**Daniele:** Then moving to the next Intu institution in the higher education that offers service design education. We have the BFH Inver, which offers A-C-A-C-A-S-A-C-S is basically a certificate of advent studies. It's something that in Switzerland you can do usually while you are already working and which is something that you do maybe over one or two years.

And they have a program which is specific for service design and customer experience. Then still, on the Swiss German part, 

## HSLU

**Daniele:** we have one of the institutions that is very dear to me, obviously, because I'm one of the alumni. from HSLU, and HSLU offers a specialization in service design in its master's design program.

But in its bachelor's design management and spatial design, service design skills are also taught. Today we have to speak about that with us, Sabine who is here with us. Hello Sabine. 

**Sabine Junginger:** Hello very nice, very pleased to be here. Thanks, Daniele, for putting this together once more for the Swiss Service Design Network which I'm a co founder of, and that also explains a little bit our role in the Swiss design service in the Swiss service design education.

We combine research and we have also an international approach. So especially when we come to public services, I think that's one of the things that we can provide those who are interested in, and I'm happy to talk more about that later. 

**Daniele:** Yes. We are very excited about hearing more about all of that.

And we have also Klaus who is joining us today. Hey Klaus. 

**Klaus Marek:** Hello Daniele. I'm here in Basel. Originally I'm teaching in or leading this Spatial Design Bachelor in Lucerne at the . But today I'm on the, on a fair. We are presenting our study program, also the research we're doing with augmented and virtual reality.

And I realized that I overbooked my calendar. So I'm here on the fair and at the same time I'm joining, but I'm very happy. I think I found a quite quiet place. Very happy to join this this event. 

**Daniele:** And thanks for joining, even if your calendar is like a Tetris, we really appreciate it.

And just for introductions, we have Sabine. Sabine is an international, we know, design researcher and professor. And she also leads the Master of Service Design and the SNF VAP project. You can ask all about that. Obviously, I mispronounced the project name. But you have it all on the slides. To find it in more details.

And we have also Klaus, who is a professor at ISLU, and who is teaching Services Design and Special Design, and who is currently the head of the Bachelor

## ZHAW

**Daniele:** Moving on, we have our next program in higher education, which is from the ZHAV, which offers a CIS, again, Certificate of Advanced Studies in Service Design and Innovation, and in its Bachelor. in Business Administration with a specialization in Behavioral Design. Service Design skills are also taught. And today to join us, we have Sandro Graf, who is here with us.

**Sandro Graf:** Yes, hello from actually from Wintertour. And for those of you that are joining from abroad, Wintertour is a city about 20 minutes from Zurich. Taitawe is Quite a big University of Applied Sciences. So we have different campuses and Winterthur is by far the biggest campus. So that's from where I'm joining.

I'm very pleased to be in this 

**Daniele:** in this round. And thanks so much also for making it to this event. Pro presenting Central. Basically Central is the head of the Center for customer experience and service design at the said Haha which I'm obviously mispronouncing as with my French accent. And Sandra teaches service design at the Bachelor and Master Levels and is the program head of the CIS service, design and innovation.

## FHGR

**Daniele:** Our next institution which offers opportunities to learn service design is the FHGR, which offers a bachelor program in service innovation and design. In 2025, this program will become part of the general bachelor degree in tourism. For both individual and corporate teams, FHGR offers also something quite neat, which is a two half day introduction course on service.

Design. And today we have with us Dominic Knaus, who is representing CUR and the 

**Dominik Knaus:** FHGR. Hello, everybody. Greetings from Canton of Grazians in the lovely Swiss mountains. Not from the WEF in Tafos, but from CUR. Thanks Daniele for having me here. And I'm looking forward for the discussion. 

**Daniele:** Thanks so much for joining us.

## FFHS

**Daniele:** And we slowly get, to the last institution that we're going to speak about today, which is FFHS, which is Fernhochschule, which means a distant learning university, and this one is FFHS. Mostly remote, but also present for I think in Zurich and which offers a CIS in business engineering in which services and skills are taught.

## Overview higher education in Service Design

**Daniele:** And this brings us to this view where we can clearly see that service design education is something that is that happens a lot in Switzerland. And we have. A lot of languages. We have English, French, German. We have remote opportunities, on site opportunities, part time opportunities. And now you might say, wow, Daniele, this is so much opportunities.

How do I choose in all of this good stuff? One way that we could say it is the one that I'd like to propose here. So if you're someone speaking French and only French, then HLSSO in Valais Sierre might be the best place. for you. If you're looking for something quite quick like the two day introduction course the program of FHGR is really great for you.

And if you're looking for something more long term but part time at a bachelor program, at a bachelor level, they offer really also great. Stuff. Then for HiSLU, they are the only ones offering a master program. They're very much international oriented, so that's like their, the special element.

And we have two great CIS that you can do also while you are working on your usual work. So that's really something that is Very interesting with the BHF and the ZHAV. And the FFHS is a great opportunity for you to know more about service design a bit in a remote fashion. So this gives us a bit of a first overview about higher education.

## Other ways to learn Service Design

**Daniele:** There is not just higher education. There are other ways that you can learn service design, obviously. And this is also dear to us to just say. University is one path, and it's a path that many of us have been through and that we highly recommend, but it's not the only path, and that's also something that we want to highlight here.

There are great online courses that exist, obviously, and here are a few of them that I we obviously recommend the one is the one that we always love to recommend is the ones from the SDN Academy. So that's the kind of educational part of the Service Design Network and the prices are really affordable and you can find a lot of remote courses.

These are all schools or online schools that are remote first and where you will find A lot of good stuff. And I've also included the Swiss Innovation Academy, which is the project that I'm running because I think it's one of the few ones that is fully remote and based from Switzerland.

But there are more ways to learn service design, obviously, podcasts, books, videos, there is a lot of ways that you can learn service design by yourself. in a bit of an asynchronous way.

But if you're more someone who says, oh, I need an event, I need a moment, I need something scheduled in my calendar to, to be able to learn because self learning can be so hard, then I would recommend obviously to join conferences, mentoring opportunities, or webinars. And here I'd like to highlight a conference that will be on June 1st in Sierre and also remotely, where we will have a service design Day conference for Switzerland, where you're all invited with one of the first guests or speaker that we will that we already can announce, which is Christine Steyers from the Salvation Army, who will speak about how to create services for people that are usually hated by the population.

So some really interesting ways also to learn about service design in there. 

## Map of Service Design Education in and from Switzerland

**Daniele:** And this all gives us. A bit of a new map of service design education in Switzerland. If we put it all together, we can see that there is a lot of different ways to learn service design in and from Switzerland. So we have the higher education part, we have the online courses part, but then we have all the self learning opportunities.

obviously exists. Special mention also to ADPList, which is a mentoring platform where you can find a lot of service designers.

## Roundtable

**Daniele:** And so this brings us to the next part, the part that I'm the most excited about, which is the round table. 

## Recommended ways of learning Service Design

**Daniele:** For this roundtable, the first question that I'd like to share to the guests is this one. If you had to recommend one other institution or way of learning that isn't the one that you're representing today, which one would it be?

And why? So let me, give me just one second to bring all of our lovely guests back in the room and we will start with this question but obviously we have the opportunity to answer a lot more questions so in the chat don't hesitate to bring in your questions And I'd love to start maybe with you, Dominic.

So for this question, if you had to recommend something else, then what you're representing today, which one of the competitors maybe, or other ways, do you particularly love and why? 

**Dominik Knaus:** In the sense of the students, after the bachelor, the master follows. So there is obviously only the high school that comes in with the, their master.

Anyway. And for an alternative way, I say it's most important is to experience it and just learning by doing with some basics. And then get into the topic to really apply it in advanced cases. 

**Daniele:** Thanks so much. And so I think you've given the ball pretty well to Sabine. Sabine, if you had to recommend another institution, we will see if you give the ball back to Dominic.

**Sabine Junginger:** So I like all of those programs that have been presented today and that are present today. They all have their strengths and they all fit and suit different needs and different circumstances that people have. I come from a more research based approach to service design and I'm very rooted in the service design research and professional community.

So there are programs that are international and the Politecnico in Milan would be one or Aalto University. They have programs also on the master level. And by the way, we're also exchanging with them. But if I would like to if I think differently and follow Dominic a little bit with the.

Practice and professional experience. I would actually encourage people who are interested in services to enter into a public organization. Work with a government organization for a while, because that is where the services are crucial. That is where you learn from the start what works, what doesn't work.

And it, I think is a really good preparation for anything that you will do afterwards.

**Daniele:** Thank you so much. And obviously, public organizations have also one thing which is great about them. It's their complexity. And I think these are some really interesting places to learn what complexity really means and how to benefit from that. I'd love to go back to Manu, how would you answer that difficult question?

**Emmanuel Fragnière:** Yeah, it's a difficult question, but that the beauty of all the professors we've got here, they come from University of Applied Sciences and I like the point of view of Dominique. For instance their form in Service Design in our Bachelor in Tourism, but I think it, it would be good to do a Master at the University of Applied Sciences in Lausanne because it's more an art school.

I think our field Needs that all students have very different types of skills, interdisciplinary skills and to me, just to get these different types of approaches is very important. For instance, I come from the field of service operations management. Sabine, you were talking about the polytechnical.

In Milano, typically it's an engineering school so they borrow a lot from architecture and my first answer would be try in your curricula to broaden the different approaches the rich approaches we've got in service design. Second point Also, I think like Sabine and Dominic, it's important at the end that these things are applied.

It's not a theoretical approach. It's like a builder that can build a house. It's like a product designer, at the end all service designers that we have formed, they need in that service economy to be able to be these builders of intangible products. Just to answer, I think it's good in Switzerland, we've got different types of service design approaches and very applied, and at the end that it has a real impact.

in our economy.

**Daniele:** Thanks so much, Manu. And I think you're giving a really great point here, which is every institution has a bit of a culture, which is a bit different. And obviously, if you come from a design culture, it might be interesting to go more into it with something which is more engineering. If you come from engineering, maybe, get a bit, disturbed by the arty approach of a more creative background.

I think this kind of opposition is always something that is very helpful and very interesting. And Manu gave, I think, the ball perfectly back to you, Klaus. What would you recommend? What's the place or way of learning service design that you would also recommend? 

**Klaus Marek:** Yes I have to say I, When I look back in my life, I did a lot of different things and I'm now very happy to to integrate all these different disciplines in one program that is also a bit confusing for young students, but they make, they do it very good because I think I think we should always integrate a lot of different disciplines.

I think this is also the approach of service design that we are not only thinking in one, Direction, but that we also think about, let's say really prototyping implementing solutions in the real world and for that reason I like different, let's say life is one of that you're really doing a lot of different things when you're young because then you can, then you have a lot of ideas that you can integrate in.

into a solution, let's say, to develop, but if I should choose, I would say I was a little bit impressed from our visit at Politecnico in Milano at the PoliFactory, because they have a study program in service design, but they also have this PoliFactory where they're really doing prototyping directly, also on really working on real problems.

And really trying to find solutions that yeah, that are not let's say yeah that, that really are helpful for the people. And I think this is the one thing and the other is years ago, decades ago, there, there was the I think in Denmark it was where the KAUS pilots were invented.

This is, I think, was in the nineties already, but I still like this program because it's also, we are dealing always with chaos and there are different ways to deal with it. You can make order, but I like this idea of being a pilot in the chaos. And if you have the right tools and methods in your hands, I think what should happen?

I always think when I think yeah. Design a study program, I design a study program. If they ask me to design an exhibition, I design an exhibition. But always, with the mindset, tool sets and methods of, let's say service design, I think it's a very good compass that you can use in a project.

**Daniele:** Thanks so much. And this brings us also, what's interesting in here is, hearing that, there are recommendations that come again and again, practice, polytechnical I think this is also interesting for the community to hear also what's coming again and again. And that's why I love that we can do this round table with so many of you.

Sandro, what's your take on that? 

**Sandro Graf:** Yeah, my take is actually that I I made a note and I think to start with service design, it's exactly what Manu said before we have all different flavors at our schools and I think it's important to, to start with and just take one of the flavors our flavor is certainly that we're we're actually at the bachelor level we're the biggest business school in Switzerland, so obviously.

We have this flavor of business administration, so saying service design at the end is always something that has to come up with solutions that are as well viable and bring a business case that You know, things, money to the company or money to an organization that, that counts as well for a non profit organization.

And I think once you have the basics, it's actually important to practice practice. And for example Do a further education to somewhere more specific. Someone mentioned I see that maybe a service design in healthcare. I think that's a little bit, a more difficult one. I know a lot of practitioners actually that do service design projects in the healthcare arena.

We have at the master level, we have a bio design summer school. At least we touch a little bit the healthcare sector but saying so it's always easy to get in and learn service design from scratch at one of our schools or different schools as well abroad with a certain flavor. And then once you're, the basics is important to practice, practice.

And I think that's where you learn the most. 

**Daniele:** Thanks so much. Practice. We hear, we heard that. I love that. It's you Service Design educators will say practice, it's, education is great, but practice, still, we need both. And I think that's a very good reminder that we have here.

Sandro you're helping me to do transitions in a very smooth way, so thank you so much for that. I'll bring in 

## Healthcare and Service Design

**Daniele:** the first question from the community, which is from Francis, who asks Service Design in Healthcare Services, is it a wicked problem that needs another strategy? What's your opinion on this one, please?

And here. I'm open to whoever has an opinion at first.

**Sabine Junginger:** I'm happy to take it. We have to be careful with terms and a wicked problem. I would probably say it's not a wicked problem per se, but if you are trying to change the healthcare system, like the national healthcare system in the UK, like the NHS, That definitely is a wicked problem because it's so complex systemically and it's so dependent with so many stakeholders and so many rules, regulations, and actual services.

So that's a lot of I think, if you're a service designer, you will probably not be able to address that, and certainly not single handedly. But there are so many other areas in the healthcare service that you can tackle. And, the difference between a wicked problem and a tame problem which is the definition by Riddle, is that a wicked problem doesn't have an absolute right or wrong solution, and there are many different alternatives.

The one with the tame problem that is when you have, let's say you, you have to there, there's a specified outcome that you need to have okay, we need to have a better insulin provision, you can actually work on that if there's an insulin pump involved, then it gets a smaller problem size and you can work on how do people get an insulin pump, how do people understand an insulin pump, so it's a much smaller program problem than if you, Go into the whole region with the pharmacies on where does insulin come from and all.

So I think that the skill that you will learn in any of these programs, I hope, is that you start to distinguish between those wicked and those tame problems, and then you can apply that in your healthcare setting. And really work on specific problems that you can make a contribution. And I think I want to add something because now I forgot which one, who was talking about the monetary side of the business of services.

That's absolutely important, the economic side. But I would add that, whenever we offer something and organizations do offer services, or they do provide the services, they develop the services, they deliver the services, you will always never find a service that is not related to an organization.

And organizations not only have to make economic sense But the key thing that they have to do is they have to offer something of value and something of relevance to people. And I think that's exactly what we need to do through services. We need to have services that, contribute to the value and offer the value from an organization and that also are relevant.

to people. So all these things you're learning through these methods that we're applying in service design. It's not even specific to service design. It's a design approach per se, but the result of service design will be a service for specific people. And that's the difference.

**Daniele:** We have another question which is a bit on a, on an other side. 

## Are titles important in Service Design careers?

**Daniele:** We have Alejandra who asks on Monday I was at an event about a new master's degree.

Apparently the title students get after graduating is very important. Do you think the title is important when it comes to service design? So we have nods in both directions. I see Manu is more on the yes. Klaus is moving in that way and Sandro is doing that one.

So let's start maybe with Manu. 

**Emmanuel Fragnière:** Yeah, that's a big issue. And thanks to all of your work, Daniele. We explained to people what is service design. Now we know what is Product design, but I think it's a real issue. First, we need to explain to people what is service design and the value of service design in our economy.

But I would say, yes, right from the start, if that's a curriculum that contains the essential skill of service design. Let's put the title as service designer. I think definitely that would help in the future not to impose, but at least to know that someone that got a diploma in service design is got, or she's got the skill to address these issues in the economy.

**Daniele:** And Sandro, you have the 

**Sandro Graf:** no. Actually have both. I think like clouds, my, my head went both ways. Of course, on one side, we're university and just got the equities accreditation. We have another accreditation. We're on the next step. We could do accreditation.

Obviously it seems to be very important to us that. The, we have quality reinsurance, we have titles, et cetera. And I think titles, especially in Switzerland, we were speaking about Switzerland are still very important and something maybe as well, HR managers want to see, but on the other side, it, I think it's what we discussed a little bit before it's all about practicing and doing service design.

We're all universities of applied sciences, applied. I think that's very important to say At the end, and especially as well, if I recruit people for my team, I want to see portfolio, and I want to see what they did, what kind of projects of course, somewhere back is an education, and for the education, I just want to make sure it's been in education, at an institution that has a certain quality standard.

I think that is important. And speaking for all of us here I think we assure that. We're all we know and very good universities of Applied Sciences. I think actually it's something I Always tell people, I think, as well for continuous education programs, that's something they're really good at the Universities of Applied Sciences, and I think better than private institutions, because we have the theoretical background as 

**Daniele:** well.

Thanks so much. I'd like to jump on another question, 

## AI and Service Design Education

**Daniele:** one question about AI, which is coming from Sue Deshna. I'm curious to learn about what are your thoughts on AI integration in design process?

How might service design education evolve to include these nuances of emerging technologies? Technology. 

**Emmanuel Fragnière:** Can I have a nasty answer about that? Absolutely, go on. Because we're all scared about the development of AI and so on, but I think service design is something you experiment, you live, that's in 3D.

Three dimensions. Okay. And AI is in two dimensions. At least for me, AI is not an help and doesn't help all students to acquire skills. No, just we had a service design realized by our students for Cromontana for them. A place called Snow Island, and one group has used AI to generate like a projection in a 3D cartoons, and it has helped.

I won't say only bad thing about AI, but to me, I'm sure, and I'm pretty sure in the next 10 years that we need to develop human skills to become a good service designer. Sorry, I'm a bit nasty against that, but I think it's a bit of an ox today. We believe that it will replace humans, but to me, the quality offered is really not to the point what a human a trained human can do in service design.

**Daniele:** Thank you 

**Sabine Junginger:** so much. I would like to chime in on that one. I have a slightly different perspective that may also be that I did my master in communication design and my PhD at an engineering university, and my master project was a hospital navigator, so it was already digital, and it was already a service design And I tell my students that there will be no service in the future that does not encapsulate a digital or AI element, or that future service will be completely AI driven.

So that gives us a very different range of what we need to engage with as service designers. So we need to understand what service is. Is and constitutes in this context. Not so much about using the AI to develop a service, but rather to understand how can we, how do what is a service in this context?

And then I think I'm also critical. There, there needs to be an understanding and a critical engagement to the point that we are actually already looking the other way. At some point we, we say at what point is it a disservice? And at what point is our current understanding of service service design focuses on seamless services.

So no interruptions, no thinking, you want to get a task accomplished, you want to get the goal achieved. We as service designers, of course, know how to make that smooth, keep you in the flow and really make this a seamless experience. But is that always so helpful? Is that a real service?

when we deal with new technologies and AI, or could it be that our service in this context is sometimes to actually cause a break, cause a disruption, a moment of reflection, a help for the people to understand what's actually happening. So I think AI and the digital presents very new areas of service practice and service professions.

So I, I think we should fully embrace that. And yeah, that's my view. Oh, and I can also add that, of course, this we have Pepper Project that you mentioned, Daniele, which we had yesterday, a workshop with the World Health Organization and the chair C Innovation in Policymaking. And that. Was, of course, also related to services, and yet we, dealt with AI and how that can help people in organizations like the World Health Organization to re think and restart the service delivery, but also the framework that provides this possibility to create services.

Slightly different from Emmanuel. 

**Daniele:** But it's good that we have both 

**Emmanuel Fragnière:** point of views. It's good to have a different 

**Daniele:** views on that. Absolutely. The next question I'd like to offer it to Dominic, and 

## Lack of business culture in Service Design education

**Daniele:** it's a question from Adam Lawrence, who many people might know. He says, I find many services and graduates have little or no idea about how organizations work, especially on how they make decisions and assign value.

What can we as design educators do better? 

**Dominik Knaus:** As we talked about a bit earlier, apply and practice. In our course program, students have one and a half year, they start with the first project, just the basics and the theoretical part. Then in the second half, in the second semester, we will do projects with them.

For instance, Switzerland Tourism, SBB. huge events, and so on. And then we will go with them and accompany them with the process. And then in the third semester, they do have to acquire a known project because selling service design is not that easy. And with these, we can ensure that students coming from our university, they can start service design or apply.

The service design process right from the first day. And this is something we made really good experiences. And I think again, it's about practicing and especially connecting real cases to the methodology one teach in a university. 

**Daniele:** I'm, I'd love now to throw a question to you, Klaus.

## Service Design education elswhere

**Daniele:** Which comes from Peter Horvath, who is one of the co founders of the Swiss Service Design Network. He asks, how much do you see service design being integrated into other educational programs beyond design education? Difficult question. 

**Klaus Marek:** Yes. But if I understood the question it's, I would say it is already integrated in other programs, or let's say other disciplines sorry, I'm a little bit disturbed here now, but I think all the other, a lot of other disciplines are already using service design, in their program in the economies, but also in the study programs that deal with technology, because I think they realize that it's it's Putting the human in the center of the development of new products, 

**Daniele:** Being it's

**Klaus Marek:** It's really, here is not a really good service for people who are talking beside at the fair. No I would say we could integrate it also in, in other design disciplines. I think I think I don't see so many. Design programs that have already integrated this this approach or this kind of attitude.

Designers talk a lot about attitude, what is my attitude? And, but it's always let's say, a lot of author based. Yeah they think about my idea, I have an idea, but they don't think about the users. And I think it should be more integrated in other design disciplines, yeah. We tried it in spatial design where we deal with, with spatial problems.

That it be an affair like this, but also public places, urban design. But I think it's very interesting to, to have this attitude that we designing for someone. And we also think about the experiences they have. We always think about flows and and a chain of experiences 

**Sandro Graf:** people have in a, 

**Klaus Marek:** In a space, in a room, 

**Daniele:** Or in a kind of a cascade of rooms.

**Klaus Marek:** But I think it's, it should be integrated in every yeah, if it's possible in, in different disciplines. And I see it's already done. I think the economy is doing a better job than design, let's say. I don't see it so much integrated design, but in other disciplines beyond design, I think there is, it's more integrated 

**Daniele:** already.

## HES-SO Service Design culture

**Daniele:** We have a question which is for Manu from the lovely people around from Event Design Collective. And they say, how would you typify the culture at Azure SSO when it comes to design? So what's the taste? From where does it come? 

**Emmanuel Fragnière:** A little hello to Ruda. So I, I got my degree in Event Design from this company and just to say I'm from tourism.

And to answer Ruud I would say the playground we're using in tourism, and I think that's the same for Dominique and maybe it's not the same in an engineering school or art school or business school, is that our playground is really the customer journey. And we need to, so in terms of culture, it's really our playground where we're designing services.

And not much about I don't like to call it like a touch point. I know Maxi doesn't like that, but we avoid to concentrate. On on just a step of the customer experience, but get like a more holistic approach here. So to answer your good question, and I think that's a good point to come into reason to start learning in service design.

is that our playground is really the customer journey and in tourism specifically and that's why I was a bit arguing with Sabine is that with our service design we tend to produce emotions for the client and that's something that has to be very a real physical experience and that this is why we're using like a theater reenactment approach in our service design approach.

So to, to your very good question, I would say. In tourism the culture is around that notion of customer journey. 

**Daniele:** Thank you so much. Hey, we have, we're having a very good session with a lot of questions. So I see that we have around five more questions that are left for 10 minutes, which is going to be a bit of a challenge, but I'm sure a challenge that you are prepared.

to work on with me. So what I'd like to ask you now is to try to answer the following questions in the shortest possible way you can, which I know sometimes for a service design educators is a bit of a challenge. I will start with Sandro. So the next question is just for you. 

## How can we teach business skills to Service Designers?

**Daniele:** Practical projects is certainly important, but can they teach, but can we teach graduates to talk to numbers, talk numbers, return on investment and strategy languages that rule most organizations? And I'm picking this question to you obviously, because you are maybe the one, the more businessy guy from us.

Yeah, but we have to 

**Sandro Graf:** say maybe two things, of course, if we have our students in business administration, then with a specialization in now in behavioral design, of course, they have the the business administration background, but I think it all comes to something that Sabine mentioned as well. If you find out how you bring value to to your target segments.

Then at the end you bring value to the company. The difficulty is to understand the right metrics and the right metric, the right metrics to measure that. And the right metrics are very often not what the controlling and the the bookkeeping guys are working with. So that is as well a field like innovation metrics that has to be taught.

. That's my short 

**Daniele:** answer. Thank you so much. 

## Service Design globally

**Daniele:** We have a question just for Sabine. Which says, My question goes to Sabine. A lot of love here. How do we, how do you see Service Design as a foreground in coming ages? And how will it impact globally?

**Sabine Junginger:** I think the first thing is to know that we are surrounded and environed by services. Every one of us uses services all day long, every day. So they are there. So it's a massive thing that we can engage with. And every service has the potential to change an organization. And that I think is the key thing in the global setting.

Because when you change a service, you actually have to change the organization along with it. Otherwise The organization will just reject whatever you create and people have to move with you and that and it requires a lot of trans and interdisciplinary skills but I think that in its own will have an impact globally and also wherever you work that's how you have an impact.

through starting with a service, working your way through the organization and then achieving this kind of like change in behavior or transformation in the structure and mission or vision even. And that is when you really have an impact. And I think that is what we need in so many levels.

And I think that's why before I was a little bit don't, I don't need to be called a service designer. I need to know that I am one, but I don't need a title of it. What I need is. To have the field where I understand I can have exactly that path through the service into the organization and effecting change to create better value and better relevance.

**Daniele:** Thank you so much. We're really good at the rapid fire. Great. Thank you so much for that. 

## Product Design and Service Design

**Daniele:** We have Nicholas Molina, a dear friend from Common Lumbia joining today, who says, I see a huge opportunity for service designers to work on product. What is your point of view, your opinion on that? Has anybody an opinion on that?

Yes. Oh, thanks, 

**Sandro Graf:** Andrew. We're listening to you. Maybe first of all, we have to say that especially I'm at the Institute for Marketing Management and in, in marketing today you talk about a service dominant logic, so you say actually every product at the end is being used in a way a a distribution vehicle for services.

So if we talk about service design, we include actually product design and at our Institute, we have a team product management and we work hand in hand. That's something we actually don't make that distinction anymore between the product and the service because at the end you use a product and 

**Daniele:** it's a service.

## Event Design and Service Design

**Daniele:** Thanks so much. I have one for you again, Dominique, because I think it might be relevant for what you guys are doing in Grison, I don't know how we say that in in English the question is service design in events what models do you apply and how do you view events design, experience design as a field of study in Switzerland?

**Dominik Knaus:** In general, I'd say, manu's technique or Manu's approach would fit for the experience design quite good or yes. And but our approach is we try to develop services evidence based, that means we combine the statistical data, the quantitative ones, with the qualitative ones we gain from customers.

And, therefore, this approach can be applied for any project and any topics. That is the reason why I would have answered on many questions, it's all about the method. Methodology and service design has to be considered as a cross sectional topic and the means to the end and so it doesn't matter where you apply it, it's just the way and the most important thing it's all about human centricity.

**Daniele:** Thanks so much. So much on the point. I love it. 

## Ideal Service Design example

**Daniele:** And we have our last question from the community for today, which, again, Sabine, I read in the chat that this one is just for you. Sorry, guys, there is a lot of love for Sabine today. And the question is, what, according to you, is the ideal service design you have came across to date?

**Sabine Junginger:** Service design always is contextualized and it's always specific to a particular group of people or a specific situation, as most of design is. So I, ideal I think maybe a better way to frame it is. to say what is a service that really does a good job? And there, I work particularly in the public sector because I feel like that is where service designers are more challenged because you cannot distinguish between people who are rich or poor or who are in education and don't have an education or who are young or old.

If you're in a public service, you have to Provide equal services to all and you have to make it accessible and useful and desirable or at least useful and manageable and accessible to everyone. And so for me I tend to say public services and good services there can include the transport system.

Honestly, I like the SBB app for booking trains. And I think that's a really well developed service and also shows again that we're also using technology as we're delivering services and providing services. But there's a number, but this would be a specific service that if It comes to my mind that I think is well conceived clearly user with user research in mind and and combines also the other aspects of the human experience and human interaction.

## Closing words

**Daniele:** So thanks Klaus, thanks Dabin, thanks Sandro and Manu and Dominic. A big thank you to you. Don't hesitate to send some love to them on their LinkedIn profiles and stuff.

They will surely appreciate it.

I'm extremely thankful to all of you who have joined to all the 183 people who have registered to come live or see the event after. 

Have a lovely evening. Bye bye. Thank 

**Sabine Junginger:** you. Thank you very much, Daniele. Bye bye. Cheers. Thanks, everyone. Good questions.

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